Thursday, October 25, 2012

Tam ea communis et universa precatio est quam creare posse

[This is a translation into Latin of what I think has become known as The Universal Lord's Prayer, written more than a year ago.  It's sort of a first pass, no feedback yet.  It makes no attempt to correct the grammatical problems of the original.  Just to translate them.]


Pater noster, qui fortasse femineus es aut sine genere es aut multi genus aut etiam simpliciter multus et qui fortasse propinquitatem nobiscum habes nonve habes et forte in minimis etiam es, qui es in caelis per quod in aninmo habere ubicumque eum/eam/id/eos/ea/ea forte adesse, aut etiam non adesse cum probaverimus eum/eam/id/eos/ea/ea in primo forsitan non esse:

sanctificetur Nomen Tuum si nomine tibi est et illud genus rei tibi placet;

adveniat abeatve, apudve nobiscum maneat, inve alibi maneat, aut in via quae nec adveniente nec abeunte eat, aut ominio opinabilis sit, aut res quas verbis motionis simplicia describere non potest faciat Regnum aut Reginum, aut Imperium Singulare Multitudinisve, aut Respūblicas Formam Popularem aut Imperium Habitus Mari, aut Commūnitarium Imperium Cooperante Paris, aut Civitatem in qua libido multitudinis pro legibus est, aut Quodcumque Tuum;

fiat voluntas Tua nisi malus es, voluntasve non habes, bonave es sed malus sum, voluntaseve est ex contrarius, malamve diem sic res, quae in vero utinam non voles si in statu animi salūbri sis (complexum egesne?) via, forteve ... ecastor, quid scisne, in posterum versum movemus uter vis aut non,

sicut in caelo, uti significatione antea discripte caeli, si res in illo loco bona sunt, si sum, quod, antea constitutus, forsitan non esse, cum maxime tu forte non esse, additamentum fortasse illud succedentem videamus primus, imperium in caelo habesne? Non certus sum illam arrogantiam habere. Si in caelo voluntas Tua perpetuo impeditur fortasse non sicut in caelo volumus, nisi in primo voluntas Tua esse nolumus et ... movemus:), et in terra aut alibi loco, Martem tempore anni esse audio.

Panem nostrum cotidianum da nobis hodie respiciens sollicitūdines victuum nostrorum, qui fortasse non panem sinit, etiam non panis omni nostrarum placet, et fortasse multitūdinem panis datūri non habes ac vero imponere nolamus, nisi volamus, et quid si panem eges, et quid si ieiunium servamus hodie et quid si persuasum sumus tue non coniunctum esse nos panem adipiscentes, et vero ego credo nos quid vocesse hic sic esse: nos cibum velle, nisi ubi nos nolle, et illud fortasse non vero tecum coniunctionem habere, qui fortasse tu nos alens non curat atque adeo fortasse etiam es. Tamen ego te satis edere spero, sed illud modo me est et ego loquor pro omni;

et dimitte nobis debita nostra nisi non reamur oportere dimittere nobis debita nostra, vel non rear conveniens esse tibi, quotcumque aliarum rerum,

sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris praeter illa tempora non summus;

et ne nos inducas in tentationem, nisi temptari volomas paula temptationem nonnumquam foresse res bonus est, et non persuasus sum omnem nostri sequi ubi, qua ducitis, volamus, fortasse malus es, aut sine mente es, aut non sum, et quaedam nostra experientias malae cum MLA[1], et aliquantulum plurem historiae tuae scire volo, bonusne itineris dux es? Citationesne habes?

sed libera nos a Malo nisi illud genus rei nobis placet. Fortasse periculum nobis placet. Periculum potest ludum esse. Additamentum non omnis nostrarum persuasa est te virtūte in liberatus aut etiam potes distinguere bonum a malum. Et fortasse praesertim alacres sumus nos hodie liberari neglegenter. Credo illud esse fortasse aliquid, quod singillatim diiūdicare oportere, ita prior roges. Nisi ille homo tibi dixit te non facio, in animo habeo. Tu debes te notitiam optimam habere, nisi non habes quod fortasse non es, ita omitte debere in priore et substitue fortasse.

(Verba Interposita Coepit)

Namque tuum es fortasse sed non necessarie regnum ipse aut reginum, aut respūblicas formam popularem, aut … illudne prius fecimus? Credo nos illud prius fecisse. Ita fortasse vos in memoriam revocare oportet, sed adiciam id modo unum reolarum esse et non reolam ipsam esse posse cum quaedam nostrae audiverimus ea in sarcinis sex veniunt, si ea quidem veniunt, rumores sunt in interretibus id fortasse non etiam esse.

et potentia ipsa aut inopia de potentia aut voluntas sententia te potentia uti aut status opprimere aut quofferasvoces[2]. Probabiliter quofferasvoces sed inopia de re est ita modo i cum eo, et decus ipsim aut non, id fortasse non decus est, quaedam nostrae non credet te esse multam gloriosam, aliae credet te esse quam gloriosissimam posse, et admiratio mihi non es si accidit quasdam nostrae credere nomen tibi esse Gloria,

in aeternum et perpetuum dum copiae durant, inritum ubi vetari, et omnis illa musica sonis caeruleis concaedateve vibrateve evocateve respondateque multisve rhythmo, subitariteve designata[3]. Musicane sonis caeruleis concaedateve vibrateve evocateve respondateque multisve rhythmo, subitariteve designata tibi placet? Opiniones variant. Certus non vero summus, res est totam “tuum es res ipse et quofferasvoces et disputata gloria” res per summam temporis durere non pro certo quanto habemus quando usquam ex nihil temporis ad omnia aeternitates variare.

(Verba Interposita Terminat)

Amen. Vel non est. Fortisan non sit. Quod etiam “Amen” significat? Aliquis non dubitanter insiliet ut mihi narret sed credo nos ad modum certo posse non omnem sire.

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Before we get to the notes, note that, as the in the original the bold is the original, but the doxology (the parenthetical) is not in the original Latin, so I had to translate that into Latin.  The full Latin I was working with is the original plus my translation of the doxology is in the notes [4].

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Translation notes

[1] Global Positioning System, translated hastily and no doubt badly as Mundus Locans Artificium (MLA)

[2] whatchamacallit = what you may/might call it = quod fortasse voces = quofforasvoces

In compounds “d” assimilates to “f” if the second part begins with an “f” thus quod becoming quof. The “t” screwed up the way the word rolled off the tongue and thus had to be dropped. Originally I also dropped “sse” but decided to maintain one “s” to keep as much of the original feel as possible.

[3] Jazz. Trust me on this.

Ok, more explanation needed. I used the definition:

musical art form rooted in West African cultural and musical expression and in the African American blues tradition, with diverse influences over time, commonly characterized by blue notes, syncopation, swing, call and response, polyrhythms and improvisation.”

I didn't want to get into the history so much as the being, also how does one say “African American blues tradition” in a language that fails to take into account the existence of America? One could translate America somehow (land beyond the outer ocean, new world) and thus get at it, but that wasn't the point. So I just worked with the “characterized by” part.

There is no Latin word for syncopation, so one had to be constructed, this was done by taking the word appart then putting it back together in Latin:

syncopation = sycopate + ion; syncopate from greek for “with + cut”
So:
cum + caedes = concaedes = syncopate; concaedatio = syncopation

One could have done it different ways, but they didn't sound as good.

There is no Latin word for improvisation, but there is one for improvised:
improvised = subitarius
So I went with subitaritio for improvisation

The downside with going with -ve is that it implies that anything that has even one of these features is jazz, this is unfortunate, but the alternative (using a word for “and”) would be to imply that anything lacking even one of these features is not jazz, which seems no better.

[4]
Pater noster, qui es in caelis:
sanctificetur Nomen Tuum;
adveniat Regnum Tuum;
fiat voluntas Tua,
sicut in caelo, et in terra.
Panem nostrum cotidianum da nobis hodie;
et dimitte nobis debita nostra,
sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris;
et ne nos inducas in tentationem;
sed libera nos a Malo.

[Namque tuum es regnum ipse
et potentia ipsa et decus ipsim
in aeternum et perpetuum.]

Amen

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Further notes:

Fortasse is a word I have come to love.  An adverb of possibility that can work with the indicative or subjunctive.  Adverbs don't decline or conjugate.  They're always spelled/said the same way.

I used Cassell's as my primary source.  It gives Latin terms for monarchy and autocracy.  Or, rather, it gives a term.  The same term for both.  So anyone feeling like something got left out of that list is correct.

Also, "a certain amount of X" no idea how to translate that because certain is actually used here to mean "specific but unknown" which is the opposite of the ordinary meaning of certain and yet used often enough to be in the dictionary as a definition of certain, now the very next sentence pointed out the unknowness which would be redundant if I chose a word with that as the primary definition, but finding something that had the same feel as the "certain" in "a certain amount of X" proved difficult, so I dropped it.

I stack indirect statements:
"really I think what we're saying here is that we want food"
"really I think" is setting up an indirect statement:
"really I think [what we're saying here is that we want food]"
"what we're saying here" does the same:
"really I think [what we're saying here [is that we want food]]"
"is that" is barely anything, yet it's still setting up an indirect statement
"really I think [what we're saying here [is that [we want food]]]"

One sentence and we're nesting the indirect statements three deep.  Didn't notice that until I was having to use so many accusative-infinitive constructions in translation.

On the topic of tools, Cassell's had primacy but Wiktionary is nice and Google translate can be used as well provided one remembers it's like a sledgehammer with a cracked handle.  Use it sparingly, use it carefully, verify your results, and it could save you a lot of trouble.  Use it without such things and the crack in the handle will become a broken handle and you risk a giant piece of metal falling on your foot.  In other words it has it's uses, but needs to be watched carefully.

Where I found it most useful was when I wanted to translate a word into Latin but the English part of my dictionary didn't have that English word. I could quickly punch a bunch of synonyms into Google translate until I find one that does output reasonable seeming Latin translations.  Then I can look up those Latin words in an actual dictionary and see if Google got it right this time.  It doesn't always.  Don't trust.  Use, but verify.

Stuff.

Other stuff.

Originally I translated [thingy] as res, but then it occurred to me that I should have added a diminutive suffix to it (ducky is the diminutive of duck, thingy is the diminutive of thing) but "thingy" is a very informal word, so getting one with a long history isn't the best, so I've gone with reola, not a real Latin word, but formed from real Latin parts. re- the root of res; -ola one of the diminutive suffixes.

I planned to convert the "/"s with the -ve suffix on the word after the /, but there's something fun about the speed of "eum/eam/id/eos/ea/ea" as compared to "eumve eamve idve eosve eave eave".  So I'm not sure on that point

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