tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3889388775673754833.post8903602919596433037..comments2024-02-24T03:34:18.060-05:00Comments on Stealing Commas: What I would have done with Vanishing on 7th Street.chris the cynichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06872875475212333027noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3889388775673754833.post-64416895741130547762013-02-16T15:43:06.970-05:002013-02-16T15:43:06.970-05:00See I missed the thing about the sun being missing...See I missed the thing about the sun being missing.*<br /><br />That really screws with the ending where, if I recall correctly, we are shown both dawn and sunset. If the darkness is global then that is so very much not possible. It could be that the darkness could keep the sunlight at bay for a while, but then you wouldn't have sunrise and sunset, it would gradually start getting lighter at sunrise, and then when the sunlight was powerful enough to break through the darkness the sun would break through it <i>already risen</i>. Similarly it would fade to darkness before it actually set because the thing stopping the sunlight from getting to you at the end of the day (or before the beginning of the day) would be the darkness itself, not the surface of the earth.<br /><br />If the darkness is strong enough for it to be pitch black at 11 AM then the ending of the movie is completely impossible. The sun should never be visible at all. It should, at the absolute most, be slightly less dark for an extremely short period around noon.<br /><br />So combine that with the Roanoke fail and the other fails as, "This movie is so very bad it can't even take itself seriously."<br /><br />-<br /><br />There is another option though, but not a good one and not an 11 AM blackness explaining one. If they really wanted the days to be getting shorter and still end with sunrise and sunset, they could have had the axis of the earth tilt more than it already is. The reason we have shorter days at all is because of said tilt, so assume that it's shorter day season already, increase the tilt, and the days will be getting shorter and shorter while still allowing for sunrise and sunset. Mind you that only works for one hemisphere. To semi-salvage the filmmakers blatant stupidity in Detroit we'd need to make it so the days are getting longer and longer in the southern hemisphere.<br /><br />--<br />--<br /><br />* Which makes main doomed character's concern that there might never be another dawn make more sense.<br /><br />Also, I did catch the thing about solar working even when the sun wasn't but didn't know what to do with it. In isolation it made it sound like solar power was working even at night, whereas given what you said it might mean that solar power works when the sun is out even when the people are not able to see that the sun is out.chris the cynichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06872875475212333027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3889388775673754833.post-13712191122174341692013-02-16T03:49:47.529-05:002013-02-16T03:49:47.529-05:00Big thick dust cloud in space would do it. (Or in ...Big thick dust cloud in space would do it. (Or in the upper atmosphere if you want the effect to be more localised - and that would probably be the only way to bind it to Earth's rotation, i.e. day length - normally I'd expect it to be a constant reduction in intensity.)Firedrakenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3889388775673754833.post-377438889987925092013-02-16T00:56:39.790-05:002013-02-16T00:56:39.790-05:00This would definitely be a lot more interesting mo...This would definitely be a lot more interesting movie than Disappearance, but I'm not sure these tactics would work to oppose the darkness as depicted there. Early on, one of the characters notes that it's 11 in the morning and pitch black outside; for some reason, the days are getting shorter and shorter. "Solar power is still working," Rosemary points out later. "Yeah," whatsisface replies, "Too bad the sun isn't."<br /><br />...I really wonder what's going on in space, then. Some kind of shroud?<br /><br />You know, the menace here seemed like an odd cross between the ghosts in Kairo (Pulse) and the Weeping Angels... but not nearly as fun as either of them.El Durazno de la Muertenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3889388775673754833.post-6334297899969172062013-02-15T20:46:34.149-05:002013-02-15T20:46:34.149-05:00I finally saw Pitch Black and it really lived up t...I finally saw Pitch Black and it really lived up to/exceeded all my expectations. Just an excellent sort of reasonably-hard scifi that seemed awfully feminist in comparison to so many others.Lonesparkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16278753827545905559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3889388775673754833.post-35238112256179712602013-02-15T04:31:29.610-05:002013-02-15T04:31:29.610-05:00I fear that much of this comes down to "God i...I fear that much of this comes down to "God is much much smarter than us, and we are simply incapable of comprehending why he does things; we just have to assume that he's Good."<br /><br />For some religious people that's enough, but it seems to me that it's a bit of a non sequitur. I'm back to my field mouse example (which I usually use when discussing Cthulhu). Yes, the farmer is much smarter than the field mice, and his motivations are incomprehensible to them, but that doesn't mean that he has their best interests at heart.Firedrakenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3889388775673754833.post-48011723137854858432013-02-14T19:04:09.941-05:002013-02-14T19:04:09.941-05:00The holes in the idea are many and huge but it ste...The holes in the idea are many and huge but it stems from compassion. It stems from the idea that the only way to justify the horrible thing that is the Tribulation is if it is the only way to save those who experience it from something even worse. Sort of, "I know this shot is going to hurt like Hell, but it's much better than getting [whatever disease the shot inoculates against]."<br /><br />It's not a particularly well thought out or strong theory, but it is one based on the simple desire to not see people hurt without a damn good reason.<br /><br />So Tim LaHaye has this idea that's presumably been taught to him, but I don't think he understands it. He revels in the sufferings of the Tribulation. Even when they get to be too much for Rayford Fucking Steele, theoretically the stand in for LaHaye, the text is quick to have another character point out, "Nope. They deserve it."<br /><br />The idea of post Rapture salvation was born of the desperate hope that something good could come from all that suffering. But LaHaye doesn't seem to get that, he seems to see the suffering as an end in itself.<br /><br />-<br /><br />* Some people believe that post Rapture salvation is possible, but that when it happens you get Raptured, though I'm not sure if it's supposed to be immediate or at set times. I.e. if you are saved two minutes after the initial Rapture I don't know if you have to wait for the next installment of the Rapture to come by (which might be at the midpoint of the Tribulation) or you get Raptured then and there.<br /><br />It's possible that both views exist.<br /><br />And the thing to remember when discussing all this diversity of opinion is that it's taking place within a relatively small groups. Other, much larger, portions of Christianity may believe in something that they call sometimes call, "rapture," but it has nothing to do with the disappearing thing LaHaye et al. are talking about.chris the cynichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06872875475212333027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3889388775673754833.post-22715920231900552492013-02-14T19:03:43.908-05:002013-02-14T19:03:43.908-05:00Intentionally split off into a different post beca...Intentionally split off into a different post because of different topic.<br /><br /><i>(I strongly suspect that this is why LaHaye espoused, or invented, it's not too clear which, the specific heresy of post-rapture salvation - otherwise it doesn't make for interesting books.</i><br /><br />LaHaye caught flack for that from the people who don't believe in post Rapture salvation. He may also have caught flack from people who believe in post Rapture Rapture.*<br /><br />Anyway, the belief in post Rapture salvation is not, so far as I know, invented by LaHaye. It's a result of a series of corrections, and I use the term loosely, to the theology.<br /><br />Step one: And there will be a great and horrible Tribulation.<br />Step two: I cannot believe that God would put faithful believers through that.<br />Step three: He won't. He'll snatch all the believers off earth first.<br />Step four: Ok that makes sense but... what purpose does the Tribulation serve again.<br />Step five a: To hurt all those bastards who laughed at me at university!<br />Step five b: To give the unsaved one last chance. Every generation before the final generation got a full natural lifetime to be saved, but the final generation is going to have less time because the world as we know it is ending, so in the lead up to that end God will try to catch their attention with bigger and bigger signs that there really is a God and they should convert.<br />Step six (in the line of b): Ok, I guess that makes sense. But why doesn't he do it with fluffy bunnies instead?<br />step seven: Because we've accepted for years now that this great and terrible Tribulation will come. See "Step one".<br /><br />And this happened, I believe, over generations.<br /><br />First came the idea of the Tribulation, but then to deal with that came the idea of a pre-Tribulation Rapture. (Don't ask me where the mid-Tribulation and post-Tribulation Raptures came from, I don't know.) But then came the question of what purpose the Tribulation served. If the saved are already in Heaven why all this terrible deadly theatrics on earth? And from that questioning came the idea that the Tribulation was designed to be something so terrible and in your face that you can't possibly ignore it. Something that forces you to realize, "Oh, there is a God, the end is nigh, I'd better choose a side."<br /><br />If I understand correctly Timmy comes out of that tradition, but I don't think he grasps the profound moral uneasiness that created it. The idea that you can be saved after the Rapture is an idea that comes from a need to justify the wrongness that is God beating the world with a stick in the Tribulation. The justification being that God is desperately trying to wake people up to save them from the even worse fate of Hell.<br /><br />[Apparently I need to split for wordcount.]chris the cynichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06872875475212333027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3889388775673754833.post-12512630560456736152013-02-14T18:25:19.591-05:002013-02-14T18:25:19.591-05:00There is so much debate about the Rapture, from La...There is so much debate about the Rapture, from LaHaye's belief in a body only Rapture that leaves the clothes behind which most others don't hold* to when it happens (I can give you four answers), to what happens after it, to ... well just about everything else, that I honestly don't know how to check if there's any disagreement on how long it will take.<br /><br />One of the more heart rending stories on Right Behind posited a Rapture wave. Instead of happening at a single instant it would happen when the first rays of the morning sun hit a spot, so a couple jumped in the car with their baby and drove west as fast as they could because they didn't know what else to do, and it just sort of got more sad and hopeless from there.<br /><br />-<br /><br /><i>I'm seeing blatant magic in the solar power thing</i><br /><br />Oh definitely, but since there's blatant magic in the, "The darkness will take your body in the twinkling of an eye if it gets to you," thing I don't see there really being with a problem with there being blatant magic in the limitations of the darkness.<br /><br />All power on earth ultimately comes from the sun** so the only question is how far removed it is. And like I said: since the enemy, the darkness, is blatantly magical I don't see why its limitations shouldn't be blatantly magical as well. Sunlight imparts a magical quality on things, one which limits the effect the darkness can have upon the thing, that fades over time.<br /><br />-<br /><br />Also worth noting that the actual movie did point out, "Hey, blatant magic here." I don't remember exactly what was said, but I'm going to paraphrase as, "For fuck's sake, the laws of physics stopped applying here three days ago." <br /><br />-<br /><br />* Thus accounting for all the stories of fundamentalist children waking up alone in their house and fearing they'd missed the Rapture. If they thought piles of clothes would be left behind then they could look around the house, see that there were no piles of clothes, and not be afraid anymore. But instead they thought people would be taken with their stuff, thus leaving not a trace, and so were left afraid they missed the Rapture until someone came back.<br /><br />** With the possible exception of something like geothermal, but then we have to get into a debate on what we even mean by the word "sun" when talking about the time when the solar system was still forming.chris the cynichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06872875475212333027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3889388775673754833.post-38982402576745623572013-02-14T17:33:57.771-05:002013-02-14T17:33:57.771-05:00As I understand Rapture myths, the major distincti...As I understand Rapture myths, the major distinction between them and this film is that a Rapture happens everywhere at the same time - so there's no running or hiding or being heroic, there's just being killed or not being killed. (I strongly suspect that this is why LaHaye espoused, or invented, it's not too clear which, the specific heresy of post-rapture salvation - otherwise it doesn't make for interesting books.)<br /><br />I'm seeing blatant magic in the solar power thing - if I've got electrons wobbling back and forth at 110V*50Hz, there really is no way of telling where they got the oomph to do that. You'd need some way of attaching tags and metadata to individual atoms. Like the quacks trying to sell special "aligned" water.<br /><br />Of course what you really want in this situation is a fusion reactor. :-)Firedrakenoreply@blogger.com