tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3889388775673754833.post3228152754390821306..comments2024-02-24T03:34:18.060-05:00Comments on Stealing Commas: Nick Fury is utterly evilchris the cynichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06872875475212333027noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3889388775673754833.post-33388379340786178052016-03-23T23:58:36.639-04:002016-03-23T23:58:36.639-04:00So he did two things. One was create the mass mur...<i>So he did two things. One was create the mass murder weapons. (Bigger than anything merely nuclear could ever murder.) The other was to put the light on knowing that it would draw threats they couldn't fight on their own.<br /><br />In the words of Captain America, "He's got the same blood on his hands as Loki does."</i><br /><br /><br />First of all, Steve's comparison of Nick Fury and Loki was the <b>DUMBEST THING</b> I have ever heard. When you take on a role as a leader - especially a political, military or intelligence leader - you're going to have blood on your hands, regardless. As a military leader, Steve should have realized this. Considering it was his plan that led to the SSR's assault on the final HYDRA base near the end of World War II, he has the blood of all of those SSR/Allied soldiers who were killed, on his hands, along with those of Chester Phillips. Steve is lucky that he does not have Bucky's blood on his hands.<br /><br />Two, the idea for creating weapons from the Tesseract came from the World Security Council, not Fury's. He's guilty of going along with it. But it was Howard Stark who found the Tesseract. It was the SSR and later, S.H.I.E.L.D. (in the form of Howard Stark, Chester Phillips and Peggy Carter) who kept it and tried to form weapons or energy from it. To lay all of the blame on Nick Fury seems ludicrous beyond belief.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3889388775673754833.post-73947437767551885972013-06-27T21:35:02.803-04:002013-06-27T21:35:02.803-04:00-JARVIS doesn't consider Jonah a role model (F...-JARVIS doesn't consider Jonah a role model (Fred Clark would agree.)<br /><br />Smile.Lonesparkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16278753827545905559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3889388775673754833.post-25032513248814243382013-06-27T09:09:58.609-04:002013-06-27T09:09:58.609-04:00Yeah, mother-ship isn't the right word because...Yeah, mother-ship isn't the right word because a mothership is supposed to launch smaller shships where the giant ships launched foot-soldiers. Troop carrier doesn't work either because troop carriers are not noted for how dangerous they are in themselves.<br /><br />Serpents if you prefer.<br /><br />Anyway, the timing of the order was like this:<br />-The Avengers assembled<br />-Hulk and Iron Man took out the first serpent<br />-The containment strategy was put in place.<br />-Thor and the Chrysler Building made the portal difficult to cross. The serpents are so large that no more than two of them can fit through at a time. Of the two that were trying to get through when Thor did this, one died (that was not in my previous counts) and the other retreated back into the portal.<br />-The council made the phone call ordering the nuking of Manhattan. The next few things are while they're still on the line.<br />-Thor and the Hulk killed another serpent.<br />-The National Guard arrived.<br />-The containment strategy, previously only a theory, proved effective.<br />-The council again demands that Manhattan be nuked, Fury says not while his team is containing the situation. (More accurately not unless becomes sure they can't.) And hangs up.<br />-The Hulk kicks Loki's ass.<br />-Romanov heads to the roof to get a closer look at the portal making device.<br />-Jarvics doesn't consider Jonah a role model (Fred Clark would agree.)<br />-Iron Man takes out a fourth serpent.<br />-The Council overrides Fury and orders Manhattan to be nuked.chris the cynichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06872875475212333027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3889388775673754833.post-82909430674173242282013-06-27T03:31:30.799-04:002013-06-27T03:31:30.799-04:00When you say 'motherships' are you referri...When you say 'motherships' are you referring to the serpent things? Because I was thinking of the huge, well, mothership out in space. I also seemed to have been recalling that they launched the nuke *before* the Avengers, well, assembled. At that point, there was really no excuse, because they were *winning*.<br /><br />Though, in any event, they may not have realized how quickly the enemy forces would fill in the gap.<br /><br />As for launching a nuke through the portal, it likely wouldn't be that hard. It has to ultimately go to vertical, but it has the whole open sky to do it in. Most missiles are capable of that, I would think, even if it might require a bit of programming. If nothing else, you could probably launch one from the ground. The main problem would be getting through without it being shot down...<br /><br />In any event, yeaaah, I think 'lol nuke Manhattan' might have been the worst of many feasible reactions...Base Delta Zerohttp://basedeltazero.dreamwidth.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3889388775673754833.post-10497567211707677282013-06-26T20:58:38.681-04:002013-06-26T20:58:38.681-04:00The portal was situated such that something would ...The portal was situated such that something would need to be fired near vertical for it to even go through, much less actually hit the target. Nuclear weapons are not, to my knowledge, designed to make right angle turns.<br /><br />Firing through the portal would require a plan, and forethought, and strategy. I think one thing we can definitely say about the council is that their brains were not something they wanted to use. They wanted a push button solution. Push button, nuke Manhattan, pray everything will be ok.<br /><br />Very little thought involved. They're not thinking things through, they're just hoping for the best.<br /><br />Or, to think about it another way, they're people with a bunch of weapons of mass destruction, they know that the enemy is over there, they're going to put those two things together and not think if it makes sense.<br /><br />-<br /><br />If they were thinking they'd notice things. Like the fact that Thor's Chrysler Building ploy worked and caused the enemy to relent, holding most of their forces in reserve<br /><br />Meaning that taking out all of those still on earth at a cost of taking out those defending earth would be a loss. There would be no one on site to challenge those previously held in reserve and any kind of containment would be lost. The other side would be able to mobilize faster than the earth side and the only thing that had previously kept them contained (the fight) would be gone.<br /><br />If they had been paying attention they would have noticed that the weather around the Stark building was surprisingly calm considering that there was a giant hole between Manhattan (at sea level so assume standard earth atmospheric pressure) and an unknown point in space (presumably a vacuum.) If they had been thinking they'd have noted that this means that the effects a nuclear detonation on earth had upon those on the other side of the portal would be muted.<br /><br />Muted from what? Well the portal opens straight up and there's a reason nuclear detonations on the earth's surface aren't spheres. It's easier to spread destruction sideways than it is to send it up. Also, though I don't think the council could know this, earth's gravity was propagating <i>through</i> the portal even when particles (such as air) were not.<br /><br />The overall point is that I don't actually think they were thinking. The six mother-ships alone, which were just the ones headed toward the not-that-big-to-a-mother-ship (but giant by most standards) portal at the same instant, represent a serious problem. No mundanes managed to touch them. Those that were brought down were brought down by Iron Man and the Hulk, the Hulk and a god (Thor), and Iron Man flying inside one and firing basically everything. The Hulk, Iron Man, and Thor would all get nuked. Leaving no one capable of taking one of those out. Even if the still alive one already on the earth were killed by the nuke (that seems reasonable to me) the other six potentially represent six other cities under siege since short of nukes no one has found much in the way of non-Hulk-Iron Man-Thor weaponry to deal with these things.<br /><br />With Manhattan nuked they'd have no cause to tarry there, there's no reason they couldn't each go in a different direction and nest in whatever city they took a liking to, with their foot soldiers along for the ride, of course.<br /><br />-<br /><br />So, again, to reiterate: I don't think the council was thinking. I think that they were people with nuclear weapons, faced with a crisis they'd never prepared for, and looking for somewhere to fire their nukes so they could feel as if they were accomplishing something.<br /><br />-<br /><br />* As I recall there were six mother-ships on the way to the portal, god knows how many waiting in line for their turn to go, when the nuke went off. There were four mother-ships, again, if memory serves, that had come through to earth before then.<br /><br />The first volley of the next wave was bigger than everything that had come before put together.chris the cynichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06872875475212333027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3889388775673754833.post-37856023158540523792013-06-26T18:45:32.370-04:002013-06-26T18:45:32.370-04:00I think Nick Fury is *supposed* to be at least kin...I think Nick Fury is *supposed* to be at least kind of evil (from the movie, and animated series). He wants to create an 'official' means of defending against all the weirdness that keeps popping up, without needing to rely on civilian 'superheroes' to do it... which makes sense. His particular idea, contrary to his 'superiors' is to create (and control) the Avengers). But he's willing to do just about anything in order to make that happen.<br /><br />As for the 'let's Nuke Manhattan' plan... the real reason it was implanted was, of course, to add tension. In universe... I dunno, maybe they thought if they stopped the first wave, then they could buy time to ship in reinforcements? As it was, they couldn't stop the first wave in time, but if they could buy time to mobilize... reacting with panic at the invasion, one city is a 'small price to pay' for the whole world.<br /><br />Of course, that they never thought 'hey, what if we shot nukes *through the portal*' is kind of sad...Base Delta Zerohttp://basedeltazero.dreamwidth.orgnoreply@blogger.com